Song of Albion

[thegrimmsleeper]

It's true he's a Christ-figure. But the relationship Christ has with his followers now, after his earthly ministry, is very different from the one he had while he walked the earth. He returned briefly, before ascending to the Father, but you could almost see that as Llew sticking around after he was killed. Well maybe that's a stretch.

Christ was the son of God and knew what he was sent to do; Llew was simply the man chosen by the Swift Sure Hand to do his will, but he wasn't divine in nature so the parallel with Christ isn't entirely complete. Both men were innocent and suffered great wrongs, and both men's deaths essentially saved their respective worlds. And their deaths forever changed how the people of their worlds would live. No longer did the presence of God reside behind the veil at the temple. And no longer was the Song of Albion upheld by Phantarchs or singing stones - both were available to be experienced by any who sought them.

Lewis said, "I was dead to that world" at one point after he returns to the manifest world. I always took that to mean that he simply wouldn't be allowed to go back - that if he tried performed some kind of rite to open the portal, it would be denied him. Or else he would traverse the sword-bridge only to find himself back where he started. Or in an extreme case, the journey would kill him. But I guess it's all guesswork unless Mister Lawhead deigns to give us an answer.

[twyrch]

The said:

Lewis said, "I was dead to that world" at one point after he returns to the manifest world. I always took that to mean that he simply wouldn't be allowed to go back - that if he tried performed some kind of rite to open the portal, it would be denied him. Or else he would traverse the sword-bridge only to find himself back where he started. Or in an extreme case, the journey would kill him. But I guess it's all guesswork unless Mister Lawhead deigns to give us an answer.

Based on the quote alone, I would assume that his return would return him as Llew... who is dead. And dead he would remain. I can also see where if he returned, he would only be Lewis again.... I doubt the Cairn can keep him out if he attempted it.

I'd like to know how he knew he was 'dead to that world' at all? He has a son! I'd bust my tookus to get back there if I had a chance...

[dinadan]

I thought that one of the most interesting things about SOA was that Llew, although Albion's savior, could not stay there; even his presence represented a threat to the Otherworld, because he didn't belong there--it would not restore the nexus that keeps the worlds apart. So, Llew knew he could not go back--and being returned to the manifest world as Lewis again was something like a consolation prize.

[twyrch]

To shift gears a little bit... One thing I found interesting was the naming of people. Earning your name. Lewis... Llyd.... Llew.

So, if you had a name you could go by... what would it be?

For a long time after reading this series, I chose Llew. But over time, I found a name I really like. Ian.

So has anyone else thought about this?

[dinadan]

Abd-al Mahdi Ackbar

Andalusian arabic for "Servant of the Great One Who Is to Come"

[thegrimmsleeper]

I'm quite happy with my given name, Joshua, for both its meaning and its historical / Biblical significance.

[twyrch]

The said:

I'm quite happy with my given name, Joshua, for both its meaning and its historical / Biblical significance.

That's cool... I mean, I'm not looking to replace my name Jeremiah. I like the historical / Biblical significance of it as well....

I guess I just started thinking... If I were living in that time and had to earn my name... what name would I want to earn? I don't think I'd want to earn the title of Weeping Prophet... ;D

[dgan]

Although interesting, I'm not sure the premise is correct. The names were not earned in the sense that you can choose what you want to earn. I believe if you take any story such as Albion at face value, though fantasy it may be, an individual was chosen for a specific challenge/life task/accomplishment. Although the fate of the individual rested in his/her own hands, the name to be earned is generally predestined to a point, because the achievement to be won was set before them.

Therefore, I'm not sure you can choose either your name or your achievement. You can only earn the name equal to your calling. Therefore, the question is more appropriately, "what calling would you hope for, and what name could be earned?" If that was your meaning, I apologize.

[thegrimmsleeper]

Pretty sure it's just a light, hypothetical question about which name we'd want to earn; it's not entirely true to the premise but still fun.

Strangely, despite Lewis's observation that names are earned in Albion, the only one whose name ever changes is his. Well, and Simon's. Everyone else keeps the same name throughout, despite great deeds being accomplished.

In all 3 instances Lewis gets a new name, it's bestowed by someone else. But the first two times are totally random. He is nicknamed Coll (shortened version) by the students of Scatha's school because of his ineptitude. Later, Boru gives him the name Llyd ap Dicter when he bests Cynan, and the name reflects his achievement.

The final time, it's Tegid (I think...) at the llys after Nudd is defeated and it's obviously because Tegid believes Lewis is the man Gwenllian's prophecy speaks of.

So, that last instance notwithstanding, it seems that one's name is as much a matter of happenstance as it is skill. Since a name is only bestowed by someone over you, that someone would presumeably have to witness or know of a deed or deeds worthy of a new name; just as Boru saw Coll best Cynan and gave him the name Llyd.

If you are ambushed by the enemy's champion and you best him by throwing him off a cliff - you lack proof and witnesses so your deed, which would be worthy of a great name, would go unnoticed.

[twyrch]

The said:

Pretty sure it's just a light, hypothetical question about which name we'd want to earn; it's not entirely true to the premise but still fun.

Strangely, despite Lewis's observation that names are earned in Albion, the only one whose name ever changes is his. Well, and Simon's. Everyone else keeps the same name throughout, despite great deeds being accomplished.

In all 3 instances Lewis gets a new name, it's bestowed by someone else. But the first two times are totally random. He is nicknamed Coll (shortened version) by the students of Scatha's school because of his ineptitude. Later, Boru gives him the name Llyd ap Dicter when he bests Cynan, and the name reflects his achievement.

The final time, it's Tegid (I think...) at the llys after Nudd is defeated and it's obviously because Tegid believes Lewis is the man Gwenllian's prophecy speaks of.

So, that last instance notwithstanding, it seems that one's name is as much a matter of happenstance as it is skill. Since a name is only bestowed by someone over you, that someone would presumeably have to witness or know of a deed or deeds worthy of a new name; just as Boru saw Coll best Cynan and gave him the name Llyd.

If you are ambushed by the enemy's champion and you best him by throwing him off a cliff - you lack proof and witnesses so your deed, which would be worthy of a great name, would go unnoticed.

Yes, it was just a hypothetical question. You're right... He didn't choose his name, it came from his own accomplishments.

I am reminded of Gandalf.... Mithrandir... he was called Gandalf Greyhame.... or Gandalf the Grey. After his fight with the Balrog, he became Gandalf the White.

The colours didn't not change his name, as Llew's experiences did but the title change is similar in effect. A name, title... what-have-you... seems to define who you are in these types of stories.

[ducklauncher]

I've always thought it was interesting how much more names used to mean than they do today. Some cultures and individuals still think carefully about the meaning of hte name, but it used to be that leaders were given titles, like Isabel and Ferdinand are Los reyes Catolicos, and Charlemagne is, well, Charles the Great, and his father, Pepin the Short...not to mention the biblical examples: Simon Peter, Saul called Paul, and the longstanding Hebrew tradition of naming your child "Child born at midnight between two wells." I love it when a world places importance on names. I suppose that's one reason I love the Farseer Trilogy so much.

[twyrch]

ducklauncher said:

I've always thought it was interesting how much more names used to mean than they do today. Some cultures and individuals still think carefully about the meaning of hte name, but it used to be that leaders were given titles, like Isabel and Ferdinand are Los reyes Catolicos, and Charlemagne is, well, Charles the Great, and his father, Pepin the Short...not to mention the biblical examples: Simon Peter, Saul called Paul, and the longstanding Hebrew tradition of naming your child "Child born at midnight between two wells." I love it when a world places importance on names. I suppose that's one reason I love the Farseer Trilogy so much.

Yes, this world would be a very different place is a person had to 'earn' their name... or were given names to fit their character.

[llew]

I saw Ynis Sci as a paradise... (following the book´s description).

I was confused as well, when started reading the Silver Hand, and noticed that the story was not being narrated by Llew (me ;D). But I prefer this way... the way tegid (although blind) describes all situations is fantastic.

As I said on another thread... this may be the best trilogy I have ever read.

Here in Portugal, Lawhead is well-knowned by his Pendragon Cycle and Bizantium. But I will put everybody loving the Song Of Albion

[calixar]

llew said:

... the way tegid (although blind) describes all situations is fantastic.

I agree. That worked amazingly well.
I would not have expected it.

[twyrch]

llew said:

I saw Ynis Sci as a paradise... (following the book´s description).

I was confused as well, when started reading the Silver Hand, and noticed that the story was not being narrated by Llew (me ;D). But I prefer this way... the way tegid (although blind) describes all situations is fantastic.

As I said on another thread... this may be the best trilogy I have ever read.

Here in Portugal, Lawhead is well-knowned by his Pendragon Cycle and Bizantium. But I will put everybody loving the Song Of Albion

This series was the first I've read that was narrated in First person... It was confusing at first, but i really enjoyed it... Like a breath of fresh air.