Merlin

[dinadan]

gwalchmai said:

I think too some of the change in perception could very simply be that we hold ourselves in different light than as we appear to be. I mean I know I think of myself as a certain way but others see me differently.

And as far as Arthur goes, he IS the summer lord who leads the summer realm of Britain. So I think that that simple fact encourages Merlin to let him make the final dicisions and to not push so hard on him. I mean he is King for a reason so its only right of him to respect that.

Well, I think we're talked about the issue of the Summer Lord on here before; clearly, Merlin was also at one point a candidate for being the Summer Lord, but he screwed that up when he went mad for a while. The mantle passed him over, and he was relegated to preparing for the next candidate. Arthur just happened to be the next person capable of doing the job. Merlin was bound by his salvation experience in the woods to prepare Britain for him (and him for Britain, it seems). But, no one but Pelleas probably understood that at all.

[Riothamus]

Argh. My copy of Merlin is an hour away, and then this happens.

Merlin is one of my favorite characters (and, it seems, Lawhead's as well, since he uses the narrator twice,) for all of the reasons cited. (That, and gloomy meditative characters have always appealed to me.) I have trouble, though, reconciling Lawhead's description of Merlin (ever-young and all that,) with the voice, (very much the voice of an old man.) I suppose it's one of the paradoxes Lawhead wants to present us with, rather as with Taliesin.

Incidentally, what's this with the "blind prophet" theme? I'm working my way through the Albion books, and it pops up there, too. Perhaps our resident Celtic experts could shed some light on this?

[dgan]

riothamus said:

I have trouble, though, reconciling Lawhead's description of Merlin (ever-young and all that,) with the voice, (very much the voice of an old man.) I suppose it's one of the paradoxes Lawhead wants to present us with, rather as with Taliesin.

I don't really see that. It seems to me his voice was of a young whipper-snapper, until his stay in the forest. It is obvious that, after that, he was bestowed a hero's portion of wisdom, which makes him sound much wiser, older, and more sad - for he feels the pain and fear of Britain more than its other inhabitants.

[dinadan]

I think Merlin's original voice--that of the pre-forest hiatus--is wise in its own way...it's the voice of theory. Later, after he's had a terrible experience of the world, that becomes tempered and he becomes really wise.

As for the blind prophet thing--that's a theme throughout the ancient world, and not unique to the Celts. I thought Lawhead played with that well in TSH with Tegid.

[dgan]

So, those more experienced than myself in Celtic lore...is Merlin's account of the Hill Folk similar to common legend? Is there anything unique there that I fail to appreciate due to my ignorance?

[Gwalchmai]

Not to my knowledge, but I was never really into Merlin Lore so I may be mistaken. I think that they are primarily there to give Merlin a certain connection to the other inhabitants of Britain. After all, if he is Chief Druid to the Island of the Mighty, its only right that he embodies abilities from all of her children and not just those he resides with.

So yea, I see it more symbolic in having the greatest powers of the island being embodied into the Spirit of Britain.

[Riothamus]

Great point. In this Merlin becomes a rather Christological figure (post-Christ, I know, but hey,) by representing his own and representing the many in the one.

[dinadan]

dgan said:

So, those more experienced than myself in Celtic lore...is Merlin's account of the Hill Folk similar to common legend? Is there anything unique there that I fail to appreciate due to my ignorance?

Ok, I was just reading though this discussion that's been inactive a while and decided to revive it here.

There are actually two conflicting/conflated traditions in Celtic lore about Myrddin. There is Myrddin the bard (who actually, apparently, did some writing--most of which is lost to us except the second-hand prophecies, which Geoff of Monmouth probably screwed up), and then there is Myrddin the wildman...like the Merlin of the woods in SRL's book. Most people equate the two, and we can't fauly SRL for doing what's been done before; and, the truth is, they might even be the same person (if you accept Merlin as immortal, b/c they lived in different centuries).

As for the encounter with the Hill Folk....well, I might even ask who/what the Hill Folk even are. There is some support of him having lived with the fair folk (the sidhe) in the lands under the hollow hills/under the lake; but SRL equates the fair folk with the Atlantians...so I don't know what to make of the Hill Folk at all. Unless, they are meant to represent something along the Germanic dwarf line...but, truthfully, it beats me.

[Gwalchmai]

Could you argue that they are introduced to represent the ancient Brits (Pre Roman)? I mean, the building of the Summer Kingdom ended ip unifying not just the various Roman-Celtic tribes, but those of Angli, Irish, Atlanteans, and Britons. So wouldn't you also want a representation in some form of the original inhabitants?

[dinadan]

Sounds as good to me as any theory.

Like I said, I don't know what to make of them.

[dgan]

gwalchmai said:

Could you argue that they are introduced to represent the ancient Brits (Pre Roman)? I mean, the building of the Summer Kingdom ended ip unifying not just the various Roman-Celtic tribes, but those of Angli, Irish, Atlanteans, and Britons. So wouldn't you also want a representation in some form of the original inhabitants?

I would have to guess that is partially true. Every indication from SRL is that the memory of the Hill Folk went back as far as anyone could remember. Although, I am not sure you could say they were the "original" inhabitants, as in the sole inhabitants at some point in the past. Rather, I would assume they would have been co-inhabitants back as far as tales recall, just as they were in the Merlin's time.

All speculation, of course.

[DanTheMan]

In Ireland, I think there's a legend of a small people called the Tuatha De Danaan. They supposedly came from the area of Greece. They inhabited Eire for a while until the Celts came and then they kinda hid. They were later treated as "faeries". Perhaps these could be the Hill Folk? Some kind of "faeries"?

[Gwalchmai]

Well if anyone has the time or effort, pick up Morgan Llywelyn's Lion of Ireland. At one point, I forget where, they go through the various inhabitants of Ireland which I thought was pretty cool.

[Merlin]

hey, another revival.

i was reading merlin again the other day, as i had just finished grail and avalon, and i kind of likened his power to the pre-mentioned "greater understanding" theory, like the elves of tokien's middle earth. Galadriel looks into her water bowl and sees the past, present, future, and the hobbits see it as magic, which is appalling to Galadriel because it isnt magic or power in that sense to her.

just my $0.02, even if it was very LotR based