Christmas comes to early

[chrystalized]

I can't believe it, chrsitmas comes earlier every year I heard the first radio commercial three days before halloween. Us Canadians are always complaining about how Americanized we are, yet we get ready fro christmas way before anyone in the reat of the world. I hat how everyon has turned this sacred day into a day of greed. Chrsitmas used to be a time when christians would get together and celebrate the savior. Now the Government has decided it is politically incorrect to even call it christmas.
Ok rant is over, Opinions?

[dinadan]

Its true that it is a great irony that in this age of post-modern, ultra-toleration it is fashionable to be intolerant of Christianity. So much so that in many cities across the US, having a "Christmas Parade" is now illegal. Now we have "Winter Festivals."

I suppose it would be OK if we went back to the celebration of Mithras/Sol Invictus on Dec 25th--which involve a man-sized bathtub, bulls, and a sacrificial knife...I'll let you imagine what happens.

Oh wait, what was I thinking. PETA would probably have a problem with someone celebrating their greco-roman Mithraic heritage because it involves killing a bull to bathe in its blood.

I totally sympathize. I advocate a totally "Live and let live" philosophy when it comes to religion. People in the US (and, apparently, Canada) need to get over the fact that they live in a western society and Christmas is part of it; I mean, they sure do love what the Christian ethos has brought them...(by which I mean, relative internal peace and security that mores like "thou shalt not kill" and "thou shalt not steal" create).

[DanTheMan]

I don't think Christmas was ever really celebrated by most people with the intention of focusing on Christ the Savior. Granted, it used to be less commercial but people still always concentrated on their presents or families or holiday cheer or parties. Most people just don't keep the focus on Him. Myself included many times, I must admit. Let it be a joyous time, certainly! But because of His wonderful gift to us!

[chrystalized]

Oh, but christmas was celebrated by most people as a Christmas holiday, albeit a few hundered years ago. My point was that it seems to be that Christian holidays are contantly being taken and turned from their original purpose into big money makers. Easter, Mardi gras and Valentine's day are other examples.

[amodman]

I think what you meant to say is that Christmas doesn't come soon enough . Seriously, though, I can't wait 'till the holidays. So nice to take a break and enjoy. Though, as far as Christmas is concerned, no - it did not begin as a celebration of Christ's birth, lol. The church put it on it's current date the same day as the pagan holiday of the God of Sex (forget which), which was traditionally worshipped by adorning a pine tree which I'm sure you can imagine was intended to symbolize (it begins with a 'p'). Same with Easter (another pagan holiday). I don't really care why your church or whatever told you those holidays were on those days, it's historical fact -_^.

[Zeke]

Easter is only on a pagan holiday if you consider the Jewish passover pagan which i don't!!!!

[Child of Immanuel]

The day was chosen from the Anglo-Saxon festival Eostre, goddess of fertility I think.

[dinadan]

zeke said:

Easter is only on a pagan holiday if you consider the Jewish passover pagan which i don't!!!!

Not entirely. Like most holidays in the Christian liturgical calendar, it has been synchrotized with various pagan holidays. Christmas is celebrated on the day of Sol Invictus, and Easter does have supposed connections to Eostre (according to the Venerable Bede)...hence the easter bunny (which, to my knowledge, is neither a Christian nor a Jewish holy symbol). Actually, of all the Christian holidays, Easter is probably the one that is the most "Christian."

[amodman]

zeke said:

Easter is only on a pagan holiday if you consider the Jewish passover pagan which i don't!!!!

I just wanna know how in the hell you connected it to passover . Passover was, and IMO still should be, one of the most holy days (or week, or however you wanna say it) from the Bible. It is, after all, something God commanded the Israelites to observe. Christmas and Easter both are church-invented.

[dinadan]

Well, it's not that hard of a leap. Jesus was celebrating Passover at what we call "the Last Supper" -- which we tend to think he was celebrating on Maundy Thursday (the day before Good Friday). Easter--the ressurection--occured on the following Sunday. So, Christian Easter can be seen as an extension of Jewish Passover.

[lovehound]

As an Asatruar (Heathen is another word for my path) I think it's MORE than time that people acknowledged that not everyone in the West is Christian and wants anything to do with Christmas.

After all, most of the symbols of Christmas were originally Jultide symbols - the tree or Jul log (the Yggdrasil - the Tree of Life) - Santa (based on Thor or Odin in His guise as Oski the Wish Fulfiller, depending upon who you talk to) - candles (symbols of light) - sunbursts (the Sun born from the darkness of the longest night of the year) - certain carols (like "Deck the Halls" which is a Jul carol unadulterated by Christmas at all) - Wassail (based on the Germanic greeting that means "good health")....I could go on.

So sure, have your Christmas, but think of this - it's not likely in the Middle East that shepherds were watching over their flocks by night in December. I don't even know that the winter solstice would have been noticed at that longitude & latitude.

Meanwhile, I'll be passing out cards this year that say "Gleðileg jól" on them instead of "Merry Christmas" and if people have an issue with it, then it's THEIR issue and not mine.

It's more than time that minority religions got some recognition. Move over Christmas, says I.

[lovehound]

dinadan said:

Its true that it is a great irony that in this age of post-modern, ultra-toleration it is fashionable to be intolerant of Christianity. So much so that in many cities across the US, having a "Christmas Parade" is now illegal. Now we have "Winter Festivals."

I suppose it would be OK if we went back to the celebration of Mithras/Sol Invictus on Dec 25th--which involve a man-sized bathtub, bulls, and a sacrificial knife...I'll let you imagine what happens.

Oh wait, what was I thinking. PETA would probably have a problem with someone celebrating their greco-roman Mithraic heritage because it involves killing a bull to bathe in its blood.

I totally sympathize. I advocate a totally "Live and let live" philosophy when it comes to religion. People in the US (and, apparently, Canada) need to get over the fact that they live in a western society and Christmas is part of it; I mean, they sure do love what the Christian ethos has brought them...(by which I mean, relative internal peace and security that mores like "thou shalt not kill" and "thou shalt not steal" create).

So here's my question - what exactly is wrong with slaughtering an animal in a sacred rite? How much different is it from Communion - "this is my body, this is my blood" etc etc? Do you eat at McDonalds or any other fast food location, and if so, do you think the animals were slaughtered in any kind of HUMANE fashion at all? I think not. With most traditional societies that slaughtered animals as a sacrifice, it was quick and painless, and the animal went with blessings from the officiating priest. Where's the problem?

[chrystalized]

Actually Santa is a mutated saint. He was originally saint nicolas, a saint famous for bestowing gifts in secret to a family who couldnt afford dowries for his family. He bacme the traditional gift giver associated with Christmas. When the Catholic church banned the idea of using Saint nicolas as a christmas symbol the dutch ingnored them. In dutch saint nicolas is sint nikolas and that got shortened to sinter klas. When the dutch came to new amsterdam (modernday new york) they brought the tradition with them. the red and white outfit was based on the outfits of the sailors. Sinter klas became mutated even further to santa claus.

[dinadan]

OK lovehound, here goes:

1) Nothing is wrong with slautering an animal for a sacred rite in my opinion. But, the very same folks who go campaigning against place like McDonalds (incidently, I don't eat there, or fast food at all) would be outraged by it.

2) Not everyone in the West is a Christian, you say? Well and good. Not everyone in the West is a serial killer either. Part of living in a "democratic" (I loathe the word) society means that we accept the idea that the majority rules. The majority of Westerners (especially in the US) are at least nominally Christians. Therefore, having a national holiday with public celebrations is not a problem. It's freedom of speech and freedom of religion. If you don't practice that religion, fine. No one compels you to go to Christmas parades, or to watch Christmas specials, or attend Christmas services. But the idea that somehow, people who do practice the Christian faith should be precluded from doing so in public is insane, and strips them of their rights.

Christmas parades are no different than pagan pride parades. The distance between limiting one group and limiting everyone is very much shorter than we'd like to think. Why do you think that we allow groups like NeoNazis and the KKK to continue to hold rallies? Because we think there is something valuable and important about their minority voice? Pshah. We allow it because whenever the first voice is silenced, the first tought forbidden, or the first expression denied, we all become slaves.

What religion you espouse (or, if you so choose, not to espouse one at all) is your business. But be fair. The majority deserves the same rights as you do.

[amodman]

lovehound said:

As an Asatruar (Heathen is another word for my path) I think it's MORE than time that people acknowledged that not everyone in the West is Christian and wants anything to do with Christmas.

After all, most of the symbols of Christmas were originally Jultide symbols - the tree or Jul log (the Yggdrasil - the Tree of Life) - Santa (based on Thor or Odin in His guise as Oski the Wish Fulfiller, depending upon who you talk to) - candles (symbols of light) - sunbursts (the Sun born from the darkness of the longest night of the year) - certain carols (like "Deck the Halls" which is a Jul carol unadulterated by Christmas at all) - Wassail (based on the Germanic greeting that means "good health")....I could go on.

So sure, have your Christmas, but think of this - it's not likely in the Middle East that shepherds were watching over their flocks by night in December. I don't even know that the winter solstice would have been noticed at that longitude & latitude.

Meanwhile, I'll be passing out cards this year that say "Gleðileg jól" on them instead of "Merry Christmas" and if people have an issue with it, then it's THEIR issue and not mine.

It's more than time that minority religions got some recognition. Move over Christmas, says I.

Your point is very confusing here. You're trying to connect pagan-inspired elements to the holiday with the religious elements which are, in most cases, completely seperate. Carols, a tree, Santa - all that is society, not Christianity.

Also, I don't know what country you've been living in, but I've been living in the one where the last few years ordinances have been being passed out left and right about having to display a menorah and/or kwanza representation if you display a Christmas tree (being because more minorities are observing these holidays).

Finally, I don't know if you were saying the Bible was false or that the date of Christmas was false at the end there, but either/or the fact remains that the Christmas was placed on its date rather than being observed for it's actual date. There is no actual date other than some rough estimations of around September I've heard, and even so, what's December like in Israel anyway? Where else would they keep the sheep?

edit: I guess Passover can be looked at that way dinadan...It's just most Christians don't give a fig about Passover in the first place, and I hardly ever connect them in my mind (mostly because I don't really view easter as a "holiday" in the first place. It's something to observe...but IMO it would be secondary to something Christ himself observed regularly). I also disagree about the whole Sunday is the Sabbath and the day Christ died and sh*t...it's just a justification of the "Sabbath" being officially transferred to the day of the Sun God and whatnot. I don't buy it. I don't see anything in the Bible for it.