Diplomacy Anyone?

[kg00ds]

I got all that. Checked the feelings at the door etc.

However, what I'm talking about is a religious conviction. I'm refering to the conviction of the Holy Spirit in relation to the fact that our actions are still lies and underhandedness and although we are doing it in the game the game is taking place in reality. Really alll I'm trying to do with this post is discuss this "conviction thing" which popped into my head. Anyway, thanks for the reply.

[twyrch]

I guess I don't even have any "religious conviction" in playing this game. I'll stab, lie, cheat and steal from anyone in the game to gain an extra center... but even then, I try to be an honest as possible.

I think it's something each person needs to work out for themselves.

[kg00ds]

Thanks as always for replying. Your thoughts are always insightful.

Of course it is something each person has to work out for themselves...and I'm not trying, in any way, to tell people how to feel...I was just thinking about it...I tend to do that alot (think).

[Gwalchmai]

Well I play on a different take. Right now a big part of my life is the sport of fencing. Unfortunatly its one of the most corrupt sports in existance. You can bribe judges, make deals regaurding qualifications and so forth and so forth. A prime example is Women's Sabre in the Athens Olympics. The american girl who won the gold in the event (first time ever in the olypics) acctually never made the cut to go. Once everyone was qualified she went to all the last minute world cups to gain some points and then bribed the south african segiment to not send a fencer in exchange for a very nice recompensation fee. This opened a space and they let her go. And thats the sport at its best. People have acctually arranged to have their competition mugged and put in the hospital so that they couldn't fence. And in talking with my coach we decided that we can't play that game but we are still trying to play in their league as honestly as possible. And for the large part, we are very successful. So thats a round about way of explaining how I play. I don't play to win, I try to play "fairly" in the face of the lies and the stabbing.

[dgan]

Well, I have a completely different take on this.

I submerge myself into the role - being a leader of a country/military. Sometimes, you need others to know you are being truthful. You need them to trust you, because you need to trust them. Others, you simply need to gain an advantage. If lying to Japan in WWII would save American soldiers' lives, then lying is what you are required to do. Others, you are honest with them until it is advantageous for you to deceive them.

Maybe that is way too serious to take a game - but you don't tell someone in chess what you're trying to do. You don't say, "I'm really moving my bishop here so that you think I'm protecting my queen, but I'm really trying to gain an advantage over that space next to your knight." Any mock wargame is about deception - just as Arthur hid his troops in the valley and had them make a bunch of noise to deceive his enemy into thinking they were a larger force than they really were. It is always about gaining an advantage to survive.

[kg00ds]

Very well put, Dgan you have eased my conviction with your words...thankyou.

[dgan]

No prob.

[twyrch]

dgan said:

Well, I have a completely different take on this.

I submerge myself into the role - being a leader of a country/military. Sometimes, you need others to know you are being truthful. You need them to trust you, because you need to trust them. Others, you simply need to gain an advantage. If lying to Japan in WWII would save American soldiers' lives, then lying is what you are required to do. Others, you are honest with them until it is advantageous for you to deceive them.

Maybe that is way too serious to take a game - but you don't tell someone in chess what you're trying to do. You don't say, "I'm really moving my bishop here so that you think I'm protecting my queen, but I'm really trying to gain an advantage over that space next to your knight." Any mock wargame is about deception - just as Arthur hid his troops in the valley and had them make a bunch of noise to deceive his enemy into thinking they were a larger force than they really were. It is always about gaining an advantage to survive.

Well spoken dgan. Although I didn't articulate my thoughts as well as you, I basically feel the same way. My attitude in the game is not a reflection of real life or who I am as a person.

Excellent analogies!

[kg00ds]

Hey, I wasn't trying to say anyone who plays diplomacy is the same inside and out of the game. I'm sure none of us are the same in real life as we are in the game.

[dgan]

To be honest, I'm pretty darn close. I'm sarcastic, over-analyze things, ultra-competitive, and talk too much...just like I am in Diplomacy. I think the difference is that in real life, I'm an office worker who stares at a computer and punches the clock 40 hours a week. If I were Condi Rice, I would probably be exactly who I am in Diplomacy...except I would probably tone down the sarcasm.

The point is we are playing diplomat/military leader, which is not our occupation in real life. If I really were in that position, would I tell Mr. Kim that my only interest was peace in the Pacific, and then turn North Korea into the largest airstrip in the world? Heck yeah! If it is what I needed to gain an advantage and reduce loss of American life.

In short, I have no problem lying to my enemies - I just don't have any, so I lie in a game to 'pretend' enemies. So if you're the type of person that would, in real life, be honest with your enemies and tell them when and where you're going to attack, a. You might have issues playing the game Diplomacy, and b. You wouldn't be a military commander very long.

(EDIT: Let me clarify that is NOT my stance on the N. Korean situation - I was simply making a point.)

[twyrch]

dgan said:

To be honest, I'm pretty darn close. I'm sarcastic, over-analyze things, ultra-competitive, and talk too much...just like I am in Diplomacy. I think the difference is that in real life, I'm an office worker who stares at a computer and punches the clock 40 hours a week. If I were Condi Rice, I would probably be exactly who I am in Diplomacy...except I would probably tone down the sarcasm.

The point is we are playing diplomat/military leader, which is not our occupation in real life. If I really were in that position, would I tell Mr. Kim that my only interest was peace in the Pacific, and then turn North Korea into the largest airstrip in the world? Heck yeah! If it is what I needed to gain an advantage and reduce loss of American life.

In short, I have no problem lying to my enemies - I just don't have any, so I lie in a game to 'pretend' enemies. So if you're the type of person that would, in real life, be honest with your enemies and tell them when and where you're going to attack, a. You might have issues playing the game Diplomacy, and b. You wouldn't be a military commander very long.

(EDIT: Let me clarify that is NOT my stance on the N. Korean situation - I was simply making a point.)

Well, I'm not going to get into MY stance on the N. Korean situation... Not in here, at least.... Pic Square, maybe...

I guess we are role-playing, in a way. I tend to play the same way in any game. I guess it's lucky I never got to the level of Donald Rumsfeld...

[kg00ds]

Well, Dgan I just want to say that I for one believe you are more Christ like in real life my freind

[Gwalchmai]

Being honest really doesn't have a many drawbacks as you might think. It helps create a constant you as a player can use to predict another players reactions. Plus, just because your honest doesn't mean you tell people the whole truth

[kg00ds]

Amen...after all Diplomacy would be impossible to play if you told everyone the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth all the time.

[twyrch]

kg00ds said:

Amen...after all Diplomacy would be impossible to play if you told everyone the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth all the time.

Too true, unfortunately.