Tolkien

[Tegid]

reguba, if you like poetry and if you'd like more by Tolkien, I would recommend The Lays of Beleriand, the third volume of The History of Middle Earth. It contains two quite lengthy but (alas!) uncompleted poems. The first is "The Lay of the Children of Hurin," and you might enjoy the poetic relating of the parts of this tale included here. The second is "The Lay of Leithian," and it is a beautiful account of the story of Beren and Luthien up to the climactic point in Morgoth's throne room. It is a pity Tolkien completed neither of these, because the portions he did write were amazing works in their own right. I've already mentioned that I wish the tale of Beren and Luthien would one day soon get its own full-length treatment in print; at any rate, you should read a fuller account of it in the History than what is contained in The Silmarillion.

[dinadan]

"The Lay of Leithian" is fantastic. I wish he had had time to do the last major revision (and finish the work)!

[Dred]

I agree with what has already been said. Those to works were truly amazing but it is a pity that they weren't in finished form. Tolkien had plans and stories developing all the time but many of them never made it to a completed form and up to his high level of excellence.

[reguba]

I was wondering whether Tolkien-ologists (or whatever we're called) accept the theory that orcs are deformed Elves. I accept it, but I've heard that there are some other theories floating around.

[Dred]

Well, it was stated that they were made to mock elves. I believe that was in the Silmarillion that Melkor did that before the great battles that took place in Beleriand.

[reguba]

Aye, the Silmarillion says that it is possible that he took the elves and by torment and sorcery turned them into a "...ruined and terrible form of life!" to quote Saruman of Many Colours. Also, I wanted to know your opinions on goblins. Most of the Tolkien books are divided on the issue. I think that goblins are just a more diminutive form of Orc, with their green skin owing to their long sojourn under ground.

[Dred]

That's very possible. I guess I had always looked at goblins and orcs to more or less be the same and that what took place was a goof on Tolkien's part with the writing but the more I've thought about it over the years I guess I just left it alone and didn't pay that much attention to it.

[Danath]

For all of you other Tolkien fans out there, I ran across this(www.tolkienprofessor.com) today. It is a website for a podcast by an English Lit professor who is doing a lecture series on Tolkien's major works, beginning with The Hobbit. Called The Tolkien Professor, it is available on the website or through iTunes.

[rhiannon]

I've heard rumor that Ian McKellan will reprise his role of Gandalf in th Hobbit. Has anyone read the Silmarillion or the Books of Untold Tales...I got hollered at for skimming a book of Tolkien's once.

[Paladin]

I have heard that rumor myself, hope it's true. I haven't actually read the Sil but I listened to the audiobook once. (Used to do a LOT of driving for work)

[Dred]

I've heard the same rumor and there really isn't much on the official movie page yet so we'll have to wait and see.

I have read Silmarillion many times, roughly once a year for the last fifteen to twenty years. I have also read Unfinished Tales and about half the Books of Untold Tales. There is some added depth in the other books but Silmarillion is one of my favorites, even though it is far from complete or in a finished form.

[rhiannon]

I think the Silmarillion in its published form is the finished form--great reference for elf names though while one rights. Maybe, I hope, Chris Tolkien would put out an updated form but I doubt. The Unfinished Tales are awesome because they go back to the first age before Sauron or any of the Rings of Power. I envy my younger brother. He has the 50th anniversary edition of the Hobbit and the Gold Anniversary addition of the Lord of the Rings.

[Dred]

The Silmarillion in the current form is as close as we'll get to a finished form but it isn't what Tolkien himself would have published. He was still deeply involved in the writing/rewriting of many of the tales, some of which are more complete than others. Christopher Tolkien pulled together everything he could of the most finished forms and put them together to try and make one book. I appreciate the effort needed for that because it sounded like a considerable undertaking from all the various pages in either hastily written form or more complete form but less flow to the story as a whole.

One thing I've found interesting is the name changes that Tolkien went through. Some characters had different names or different spellings to fit what he was after. That depth of linguistic approach is mind boggling to me.

[rhiannon]

me too Dred. I haven't the skill at writing to even try to accomplish what he did.

[Dred]

Well, there is always room to keep improving right? That's the simple statement but tough to strive for.