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Post by Joshua on Jul 5, 2008 19:16:04 GMT -5
Hi all. Considering reading some books on druidry, earth magick, and such. I'm wanting to explore a more nature-rooted spirituality. Not nature-worship, but growing more aware of the Divine in the world around me and that recognition being more than just "God made that." Obviously, I'm inspired some by novels like Patrick and the King Raven Trilogy. ;D Two fairly popular books seem to be: The Druidry Handbook: Spiritual Practice Rooted in the Living Earth by John Michael Greer and The Solitary Druid: A Practitioner's Guide by Robert Ellison I figured this might be a good place to ask about such study and practice. Has anyone read either? Anyone studied druidry and have any advice for a beginner like me? What of Scott Cunningham? Anyone read any of his stuff? He's more Wiccan. Any concerns? Looking for opinion and advice based on experience and research. I trust I can get that here from some of you.  Thanks! |
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Post by Paladin on Jul 5, 2008 22:39:49 GMT -5
Appreciation of nature is a very good thing, but I think that it can be easy for some to step over the line and flirt with idolatry in their pursuit of the divine. I think that the apostle Paul summed up the main purpose of nature very well in Romans 1:20. I strongly caution against an overreverence of the creation, as its intent was to point mankind towards the Creator. His desire is for a personal relationship with each of us through his Son Jesus Christ.
REALLY short answer on a much larger topic, so I'm sure responses to this will warrant something more in depth in the future. I want to lay a foundation of respect and openness to any who choose to reply, that everything I type will be prayed about and I will try very hard for everything to be said in love.
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Post by Child of Immanuel on Jul 6, 2008 22:00:05 GMT -5
Can you give an example of something beyond "God made that" (or "God sustains that") that you have learned?
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Post by Joshua on Jul 7, 2008 20:45:31 GMT -5
Can you give an example of something beyond "God made that" (or "God sustains that") that you have learned? I'm afraid I don't have anything that I can capably put into words. I feel there's paths of seeking-the-Divine apart from what modern Christianity has to offer. Thank you for your kind reply Paladin. That quote from Paul's letter to the Romans is interesting: "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." I can't honestly say that God's invisible qualities have been clearly seen by me other than that the natural world is itself overwhelming evidence of their being a Creator and Sustainer. I long for more personal experience and practice. I'm unsatisfied and unconvinced by Christian orthodoxy. What of the Native Americans? the ancient pagans of Europe? Hasn't God revealed Divinity to them throughout history? Don't their traditions and practices have something spiritually valid to offer? |
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Post by Treskillard on Jul 8, 2008 8:15:24 GMT -5
You might want to check out Ed Water's blog and music at: Rambles Of One Windborne - Bard Of The Grey WindHe considers himself a Christian Bard, and he just wrote a post about hearing God amidst the din of the world. This can be found here at God Will Seldom Shout. Also, his full website (not just his blog) is at: Edward Waters - Bard of the Grey Wind. He likes to take day long retreats hiking with his Bible, and I think that is a very balanced approach ... to listen for the voice of God amidst the wind and light on the leaves, but also to not ignore the voice of God through his revealed scriptures. And these two will not contradict. That is the danger of digging through the knowledge of those who in many ways forsook the true knowledge of God. Yes, there are cherries, but usually more pits, and worse, than it is worth. As John Piper says in essence: Put your sail up, but keep your keel down. Never fail to immerse yourself in scripture! |
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Post by CynanMachae on Jul 8, 2008 10:16:03 GMT -5
I long for more personal experience and practice. I'm unsatisfied and unconvinced by Christian orthodoxy. What of the Native Americans? the ancient pagans of Europe? Hasn't God revealed Divinity to them throughout history? Don't their traditions and practices have something spiritually valid to offer? I'm the exact same way, but I think what Paladin is saying is that when you focus your attention of the creaTION more than the CreaTOR, there's a line that is being crossed. And I must say, I'm guilty of crossing that line all the time. And in response to your first post, if you're wanting to stay within the realms of the Christian faith, then yes, stay away from Wiccan writings. There's a fine line. |
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Post by Paladin on Jul 9, 2008 13:53:11 GMT -5
:: WARNING :: REALLY long post below!!! I feel there's paths of seeking-the-Divine apart from what modern Christianity has to offer. I can appreciate and identify with that. Seeking another path, however, is extremely dangerous. When Jesus was preparing his disciples for his eventual departure, Thomas asked him, "Lord, we do not know where you are going, how do we know the way? Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through me.'" (John 14:5,6 NAS) Dr. Ravi Zacharias, a Christian apologist, described the religious experience like paths going up a mountain. Many believe that it doesn't matter HOW you climb the mountain, because they think all religions are striving towards the same goal. Before Jesus came, dying for our sins after having led a sinless life, there was NO WAY UP THE MOUNTAIN! Ravi put it like this, "Instead of complaining that there is only one way to God we should be thanking Him on bended knee that there is a way to Him at all!!!" (paraphrase) I can't honestly say that God's invisible qualities have been clearly seen by me other than that the natural world is itself overwhelming evidence of their being a Creator and Sustainer. I assume you meant to type, "the natural world is itself overwhelming evidence of THERE being a Creator and Sustainer" That understanding alone is enough to get the old brain thinking. Which of God's attributes can be seen in nature? I highly recommend that you read A.W. Tozer's book entitled, "The Knowledge of the Holy". It is a study of the attributes of God as seen in Scripture, but I would argue that each of these attributes (loving, omnipotent, faithful) can also be seen in His creation. I long for more personal experience and practice. I'm unsatisfied and unconvinced by Christian orthodoxy. Boy, have you hit the nail on the head! A lot of people are disenchanted with "organized religion". Having grown up attending church, this was a new concept to me. It's not like they start off every Sunday morning saying, "Welcome to First Church of Organized Religion" Once when the missionary E. Stanley Jones met with Ghandi he asked him, "Mr. Ghandi, though you quote the words of Christ often, why is that you appear to so adamantly reject becoming his follower?" Ghandi replied, "Oh, I don't reject your Christ. I love your Christ. It's just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ." I think that this is the root of the problem for those who oppose religion. What I say in response is that Christianity is not about religion, but a personal relationship with Almighty God. That relationship is possible because of the ultimate price and sacrifice His Son paid on the cross for us. It is by believing that Jesus’ death is sufficient to pay your personal sin-debt that you are saved and that personal experience and practice you long for begins. It is clearly understood that for a relationship to be healthy, communication is key. The way we communicate with God is by talking to Him through prayer and Him talking to us through the Bible. That book is just as applicable today as it was when it was penned all those years ago. All this I say is what I have experience firsthand over the last 21 years. All glory to Him for what He has done in my life! What of the Native Americans? The ancient pagans of Europe? Hasn't God revealed Divinity to them throughout history? Don't their traditions and practices have something spiritually valid to offer? That's a little tougher a question to talk about. It depends on what traditions and practices you are referring to. The main thing to understand about this is that since 33AD, Christians (Christ followers) have been working to spread His message all over the world. There are still tribes today that have NOT YET HEARD the name of Jesus or what He did for them almost 2,000 years ago. Hard to believe, isn't it? For that kind of man, one who had not yet heard of God's plan for salvation, he is the one that God has revealed Himself to through nature. When that man hears of Christ, however, he is obligated to choose the one true way to the Father. Else, he chooses a different option and that other option, no matter what it is, does not lead to the Father and eternity in heaven. May I point the reader back to that paraphrased yet still poignant quote by Dr. Zacharias, "Instead of complaining that there is only one way to God we should be thanking Him on bended knee that there is a way to Him at all!!!" Amen and amen. |
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Post by CynanMachae on Jul 9, 2008 15:15:54 GMT -5
Amen^. Paladin, that was a great post. Thanks for taking the time.
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ceridwen
Mabinog
[M:3]
Po callaf y dyn, anamlaf ei eiriau.
Posts: 106
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Post by ceridwen on Jul 10, 2008 10:48:10 GMT -5
Joshua, have you ever read Esther de Waal's works? She writes about Celtic Christianity, whose foundation is Christ, but also includes the ancient Celts and their relationship to nature, saints and angels, etc. I think her books are fascinating.
I definitely understand the attraction druidry holds. I also desire something "more" than what modern Christianity/Churchianity offers, something that is more earthy and in tune with nature and the seasons. I've been reading mythology as well as de Waal's books--The Mabinogion, for example--and trying to see the universal truths hidden within. I think these things have actually strengthened my faith in Christ and the Bible.
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Post by Paladin on Jul 10, 2008 11:05:16 GMT -5
I had my fiancee' read over what I wrote and I wanted to clarify that I wasn't picking on grammar when I pointed out the "their" v. "there". When I read that sentence, the significance of its meaning with both options was not lost on me. I assumed that it was just a typo, but it was a meaningful one and I just wanted clarify She also read something in her quiet time this morning that relates directly to our topic. During Paul's first missionary journey, he and Barnabas had to flee Iconium and ended up in Lystra. While they were there they healed a man who had been lame from birth. When the Lyaconian people saw this they shouted, "The gods have come down to us in human form! Barnabas they called Zeus and paul they called Hermes because he was the cheif speaker." (Acts 14) Paul and Barnabas obviously wanted to dispel this, and their response is what has bearing on our discussion. Paul said in v 15-17, "Men, why are you doing these things? We are also men of the same nature as you, and preach the gospel to you that you should turn from these vain things to a living God, WHO MADE THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH AND THE SEA AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM. In the generations gone by He permitted all the nations to go their own ways; and yet He did not leave Himself without witness, in that He did good and gave you rains from heaven and fruitful seasons, satisfying your hearts with food and gladness." She read that passage and thinking about what we've been talking about here penned the following words. "God is kind, giving, compassionate and nurturing. We are completely dependent on Him to meet our needs. We might think we can fulfill our own needs by working, but ultimately, but for His grace there would be no rain and therefore no crops, no food, and no life." To drive home the point, all that we see in creation that points to a Creator, by looking at those things with a different lens we can see His attributes. |
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Post by dinadan on Jul 10, 2008 12:42:25 GMT -5
As someone who has been down the Druid/Celtic Reconstructionist path, and is now back to full-time Christianity, I'd be willing to discuss some things with you privately Joshua--but I'm not willing to air old dirty laundry publicly.
My contact info is in my profile. I'm at your convenience.
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Post by Joshua on Jul 10, 2008 16:41:44 GMT -5
Thank you Treskillard for those links. I intend to read over them more. Thanks everyone else for your replies. Thank you Paladin, no worries with any long posts - I enjoyed reading it! And that WAS a typo needing correction. ;D Dinadan, PM sent. |
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rhiannon
Mabinog
[M:-95]
Chose a lich avatar because I am writing about them.
Posts: 212
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Post by rhiannon on Nov 26, 2009 19:54:01 GMT -5
The world of the druids by Miranda J. Green is a non-fiction book that covers the historical lore of the druids from ancient times. I like studying druidery. I several pagan friends who are druids or have studied some aspect of it. It's my belief tha druidery and other forms of magic all have roots in Shamanism. IMHO.
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