The Language of the Natives in King Arthur

[Skye]

I watched King Arthur only last night for the first time!! The celts in the movie spoke in their native tongue but there were no subtitles to lend any clue to a viewer as to what they were saying!!

What I wanted to know was...1) was it gaelic they spoke in, and if so what form of gaelic was it?

and,

2) What were they saying?

[dinadan]

Historically, they should have been speaking Briton or an early form of Welsh. What they were actually speaking in the film, though, I have no idea--given the verisimilitude of the rest of the film, they could very well have been speaking modern Irish.

[twyrch]

They could have been speaking Irish... which was a derivitive of Gaelic, as was Welsh and Cornish.

I would guess Cornish was the "native language" but I agree with Dinadan... They were most likely speaking Irish.

[dinadan]

twyrch said:

They could have been speaking Irish... which was a derivitive of Gaelic, as was Welsh and Cornish.

What? No, not even close Twyrch. Welsh is P-celtic, and Irish (Old Irish, Modern Irish and Scots Gaelic) is Q-Celtic. Different branches of the Celtic language family. I'm not sure about Cornish, but I think it probably is P-Celtic too (since it was related to Briton/Brythonic). Welsh was not a derivative of Gaelic. Say, rather, that Irish/Gael and Welsh are two different branches of the same Indo-European language family.

[Skye]

dinadan said:

What? No, not even close Twyrch. Welsh is P-celtic, and Irish (Old Irish, Modern Irish and Scots Gaelic) is Q-Celtic. Different branches of the Celtic language family. I'm not sure about Cornish, but I think it probably is P-Celtic too (since it was related to Briton/Brythonic). Welsh was not a derivative of Gaelic. Say, rather, that Irish/Gael and Welsh are two different branches of the same Indo-European language family.

All this is very very interesting! So, welsh isn't a form of Gaelic? Then what exactly does Lawhead use in his books? I need to know. And I had absolutley no idea that Cornish was also of celtic descent!!

oh, and dinadan...what are Q-Cletic and P-Celtic?

[dinadan]

Skye said:

All this is very very interesting! So, welsh isn't a form of Gaelic? Then what exactly does Lawhead use in his books? I need to know. And I had absolutley no idea that Cornish was also of celtic descent!!

oh, and dinadan...what are Q-Cletic and P-Celtic?

Modern Welsh and modern Irish Gael and Scots Gael share a common ancestry, but they developed independently of one another (kind of like modern English and modern German, or French and Spanish). There are two branches of the Celtic languge family, designated by type, P and Q Celtic. A quick google search revealled the following explanation (worded far better and more concisely than I could've done it):

The Celtic Insular languages are mostly those spoken on the islands, typically Britain, Ireland, Man and part of France. The Insular languages are divided into two branches, the Goidelic and the Brythonic. The Goidelic languages are Irish Gaelic, Scottish Gaelic, and Manx. Manx is a form of Gaelic spoken on the Isle of Man. The last native speaker of Manx died in 1974, but many are learning the language today, and we have recordings of native speakers. We have many medieval Irish manuscripts containing Ireland's national epic the Táin Bó Cuailnge and other Irish myths, poetry and lore. There are many native speakers of both Irish and Scottish Gaelic today, not only in Ireland and Scotland, but also in Nova Scotia.

The Brythonic languages make up the other branch of the Insular Celtic languages. Welsh, Cornish, and Breton are Brythonic. We have fewer medieval Welsh manuscripts preserving the mabinogi and other traditional Welsh tales, poetry and lore, than we have of Irish. There are still many native speakers of Welsh today. The last native speaker of Cornish died in the late eighteenth century, but there are a number of people in Cornwall and elsewhere who have attempted to learn Cornish and even rejuvenate the language. Breton is spoken in Bretagne, or Brittany, in France, by descendents of British Celts who moved there over a thousand years ago.

The Godelic languages are often referred to as "Q-Celtic" because they use a "Q" sound, usually represented by a C or K, where the Brythonic or "P-Celtic" languages use P. For instance, Irish and Scottish Gaelic for "head" is ceann, or sometimes kin. Brythonic langauges, P-Celtic Welsh and Cornish, use pen. There's a place on the coast of Cornwall called Pentire, and one on the coast of Scotland called Kintyre. Both mean "head of the land." There are hundreds of similar P and C initial words that indicate the relationship between P-Celtic and Q-Celtic languages.

www.digitalmedievalist.com/faqs/langfaq.html

[Skye]

WOW! Thankees dinadan! That was very informative! We had a subject paper on the Indo-European languages two semesters ago...but we concentrated only on the Teutonic branch. We barely glanced at the Celtic!

[dinadan]

I'm not surprised. The Germanic and Romance languages are the ones that tend to get talked about the most, since they are the ones that are still big. And, due to anti-Celtic prejudice, the Celtic languages are all but extinct.

[kg00ds]

Wow, thanks dinadan that reminded me of the fun I had in my linguistics class.

[dinadan]

kg00ds said:

Wow, thanks dinadan that reminded me of the fun I had in my linguistics class.

You took a linguistics class? That would've rocked my socks. Languages are so much fun...unfortunately, my academic interest in them bloomed too late.

How was the experience?

[kg00ds]

Well, I thuroughly enjoyed it , although we weren't able to get as in depth as most of us would have liked (due to time constraints). It was a 400 level class and I took an advanced grammar course along with it (they kind of overlapped- they were taughy by the same teacher). The one thing I learned more than anything else was that no language is grammatically unsound (I thought this was cool). I also enjoyed learning about the history of the English language also. I tell you what we had to buy the books we used in the class I'll try to find them and send you the info. They were really a good read. There is two of them. Maybe you could check em out. Sounds like you would enjoy it.


P.S. Have I told you I graduated from Walker High School in Jasper Al. and that I almost went to Auburn and Alabama (I turned scholarships down to both of those and Beville state). Anyway, let me know if you would like to check those books out.

Also, are you the one in the Darth vader suit and if so who is your freind? (if you dont mind me asking)