Keeping going and more advice

[tomjsturner]

I was wondering if you had any advice on how to keep going with writting. Let me explain a little further.

I started writing my first story about 4 years ago, because it was a summer between courses I had a lot of time on my hands and so got quite far, and got up to around 160 pages (30,000 words), though once I started my new course in september i stopped writing and the project was stuffed in the back of my mind. I then had other ideas and now and again started to write these, but none really ever got further than 10 pages. I kept wanting to go back to the original story but I had created a lot of characters and apart from the main 7 or so i had completely forgotten what I had called them, and I couldn't face reading the whole 160 pages through - I hate reading my own writing. So i started again, but it suffered the fate of all the other stories, I would just not sit down at my computer for a few weeks to write and so never went back to it etc.I now have three main stories i want to write but If i start one I will get distracted by the other two, i was wondering what advice you would give on abling me to Keep going with one project without loosing interest, remembering characters names, and working on more than one story at a time.

I do hope this makes sense, I do rabble on a bit and not make much sense sometimes.

[CynanMachae]

Just write the story burning to be told... ;D

okay, that was my Twyrch impression...

y'know I wouldnt try writing more than one story at a time. I have a black book where i write short stories as i think them up. they're never more than a few pages, and most of them suck...
and if you dont want to reread your book, have someone else do it ;D they can give their opinions and remind you of your names...

[laurelin]

I know exactly how you feel. I finished my manuscript in January. JANUARY. It's MARCH. I haven't finished editing it solely for the reason that I'm so sick of it, I can't motivate myself to rewrite the TWO SCENES I have left. The only cure I've ever found to this is just to sit down with your drink of choice, maybe a snack (bread!) and force yourself through it. Speaking of which, I've got to do that myself. Good luck!

[Riothamus]

I'm squarely blocked, myself. Most authors I read suggest you skip the part that bores you and do it later. Except, then, the styles are so various that....

Argh.

My advice regarding keeping everything straight: notebooks. Have a notebook per novel, and write everyting that comes to you concerning that novel in the notebook. Pick one story to write, but keep updating your other two notebooks every time an idea comes--it'll give 'em time to ferment. Cast of characters, summary, et cetera, should all have a page apeice.

My own problem is plotting.... I can't keep it logical, but I can't write unplotted stories either. "A lot to learn, I still have...."

[tomjsturner]

Riothamus said:

notebooks. Have a notebook per novel,quote]

I like that Idea, I'll try it! thanks.

[laurelin]

I've skipped things before. It was...beyond words...The horror! The horror!

Notebooks, though. Notebooks are awesome. Definitely do that...I wish I'd started keeping them more often. Now I have folders full of paper...maps and lists and random things I don't remember writing.

[Riothamus]

The great thing about notebooks is that everything jostles together and ferments and by the time you write, the novel is totally different than you supposed it would be.

[twyrch]

Keep writing. Write, write, write. Get the story down on paper or computer because there are plenty of times to do re-writes later.

I didn't follow this advice and it's been slow going for me. DeusXmachina is helping me critique it as I write it, but we've both decided I'll work on the glaring problems and keep concepts in my mind, like POV and Character development.

The best thing to do is just write it though... If you get stuck, put it down for a day and then pick it up again... Never stop writing.

Don't start out writing a Trilogy. Just make a story that can stand alone. Most publishers won't touch a new author who is writing a trilogy. Too much risk is involved.

Before sending in your work, check out all the MS requirements and meet them to the letter, no matter how stupid the requirements sound.

I've got more to add, but this will suffice for now. Good luck everyone!

[twyrch]

Here's some good advice I've received on submitting an MS (Manuscript) for publication...

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It's highly advised to always finish a manuscript -- including all editing. One reason was already mentioned; you want to be ready just in case they accept your manuscript. It's also quite possible that the manuscript can change in the editing process, and the first three chapters will also turn out different in the final draft. You want to send your manuscript exactly how you want the finished product to appear -- word for word.

The way I've done this is to write and publish the book in stages. Below, I will mention the checklist I always go through when I complete a novel.

The first stage is to write and keep writing, not stopping for anything until the end of the manuscript. Not to misinterpret my words here, as you need to take breaks from writing, and many authors will set a daily word quota to write each day. What I mean is to write the story through and through, leaving any and all editing out of your to-do list until you are finished. Writing the book from start to finish should be your first and only priority.

The second stage is the first series of editing, thus turning a rough draft into a second draft. In this phase, I make sure all of the spelling, grammar, and punctuation is correct. Reading the manuscript aloud helps out a great deal here. I also use this time to add anything to the story that needs to be added, and deleting anything that has nothing to do with the storyline.

The third stage is the finalization of the book into its final draft. Here, I double-check my grammar, spelling, and punctuation to make sure I did not miss anything, and I put a heavy concentration on the formatting (IE proper line spacing and breaks, headers/footers, page numbering, etc.)

The fourth stage is preparing the manuscript for submission. This includes writing and printing brief synopses, cover letters, and printing out sample chapters (as per the publishers' guidelines).

Stage five, sit back and wait for a response, and expect to be rejected.

Why expect to be rejected? Here's why:

Anytime you get a letter in the mail or in your E-mail inbox from an editor, your chances are just as good as anyone else to get in. Some publications are next to impossible to get any material through their slush piles. Therefore, when you expect to be rejected, the news won't hit you as hard, and all of your hopes have a lesser risk of being lost. If you happen to receive an acceptance notice, the news would be twice as good as you would ever expect.

Don't get too discouraged when that rejection letter comes. I've seen people who think "it's the end of the world" when their rejection letters let them down, and would find less of a desire to write again. Whether the rejection letter is a basic form rejection or a harsh, unforgivingly seeming one, let that be your push into the right direction to continue doing what you love -- writing! I know it may seem difficult, but don't ever let a nasty rejection be the end of it all. People with the greatest writing talent in the world of literature have been turned down at least a few times. It's those who turn depression into drive and determination that go on to produce material, and those once-rejecting editors would be kicking themselves later.

When I first started my writing career, I was rejected through one publishing house that was looking for contributors to their magazine. Overjoyed and thinking I had my foot in the door, I began writing several stories for them, all of which have been rejected. I listened to their reason for rejecting my work, and from what I learned, they had no clue about good creativity; their concepts only made sense to their own staff. Their preferences made no sense whatsoever, and many huge loopholes were left open that nobody could explain. Usually at a time like this, I would learn my fictitious surroundings and base a story around it. "Something 'just happening' because this is the way it is" (in a roundabout way of putting it) does not appeal to me as a publishing house that possess a keen eye for literature. Turned away from them, I concentrated on bigger and better things. Those stories I wrote have recently been accepted by a magazine publisher that is starting to take an interest in printing paperback novels By next year, I will have published nine novels and working on number ten. My secret? I never let one or two rejections get the better of me. Sure, I was upset, but I was also determined to prove to myself and my readers that I am not a quitter. I'm going to keep writing until someone notices what I have to offer, and a greater interest will soon follow.

I knew if I was persistent and patient, my time would come. The same thing can and will happen to those who stick to their guns, and never be taken by harsh rejections. Some of them are way too selective for their own good, and you can look at yourself and say "I'm much better than they are." Use that to help get you back on your literary feet again, and write that next story with conviction!

Hope this information helps, and don't give up the gusto.

[twyrch]

Here's some great advice from Michael J. Allen....

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I have been reading these forums, the "On Writing" one most closely for several months. Often I see the same kinds of posts and questions raised time and again. I try not to frivolously add my voice to just any conversation but find myself moved to take a moment and exhort the aspiring authors young and old.

Let me first begin in regard to myself. I am no one special. I have traveled many roads, read or written many pages and published a few items here or there. I am a writer, of that I have no question, but beyond that one rare talent possess no special powers. I say all that so as to make sure that you are on sound footing in regard to the advice that is about to follow. It is my opinion, and nothing more...

They say that writers write. One of the best pieces of advice I ever heard, and I will paraphrase, was if you wake up in the morning and the first thing you think of is writing then you are probably a writer. Writing is a mixture of art and craft. A mixture of style and the science of punctuation, grammar and flow. It is not something that everyone can do well, nor is it a gift to be taken lightly. It is a way of expressing oneself for sharing to the world. Both the magic and the science of writing are improved by practice. So my first word of exhortation is write, write and when you are tired of writing write some more.

That being said I must offer a word of advice from my own experiences. Know yourself and your writing. I know when I should write for real, and when I should not. I know the feeling of what I call "my flow" and therefore when it is time to pen to paper with all sincerity. I also know that there are many times when I do not feel that flow, but yet still need to write. During those times I put my nose to practice exercises of various types. As I said in my article The Force and the Flow: "While writing on a regular and disciplined basis can and will improve your skill in this area, knowing when it is time to raise or lower your pen are essential to good storytelling. Write when the story is alive, and rest when the tale is outside of your grasp."

I often see posts with the general format of, "I have this idea. Is this okay?"

To this I must answer, write what is in your heart. Write what gives you joy, and always write for your most important critic, yourself. In the grand scheme of the universe it matters only that the writing, the reading and perhaps the sharing of your work brings you enjoyment. I realize we have a tendency to be insecure about our creative works, but ask BT Robertson what came from his brutal review of his submitted manuscript. It doesn't matter if you fill the pages of paper with purple dragons and orange faeries. Write what is within you.

On this same note I encourage you to listen to the story within. Tell the story as it wishes to be told and do not give head to the market, the critics or the naysayers. I had someone to whom I was at one time very close tell me to give up writing. They told me the odds as I have expressed them here in the past. Out of hundreds of thousands of people "writing a novel" perhaps 10,000 ever get finished. Of those, maybe 100-1000 ever reach it to the hands of a publishing editor for whatever reason. And of those perhaps 1 or 2 get published. It's not about the odds. It is about seeing the birth of a story that is like an eaglet in its shell, trying desperately to break out.

By all means, use whatever devices work for you: outlines, formats, oodles of practice exercises and whatever else helps you. But when it comes to the story in your heart, let it out. Let it fly free and choose its own course.

- Michael J. Allen

[twyrch]

To this I must answer, write what is in your heart. Write what gives you joy, and always write for your most important critic, yourself. In the grand scheme of the universe it matters only that the writing, the reading and perhaps the sharing of your work brings you enjoyment. I realize we have a tendency to be insecure about our creative works, but ask BT Robertson what came from his brutal review of his submitted manuscript. It doesn't matter if you fill the pages of paper with purple dragons and orange faeries. Write what is within you.

I noticed that Michael hasn't gotten the response that he probably wanted, or deserved, in this forum, so I'm going to offer my professional and personal response to this one particular quote from his post, and hopefully that will spur some more thought-provoking dialog in here.

Michael is completely on track with this thoughts, as usual. We are all insecure about our work. If you're someone who hasn't a shred of insecurity about your own work, closely examine where your heart and mind is. However, don't let someone else MAKE you insecure. My phone review was probably the worst thing that a writer can ever go through when it doesn't go their way. Being rejected stinks, but at least a mailing doesn't hold the human "isms" as I like to call them. Sarcascm, etc. But, it's the way you handle it. Although the critique made me change some things in my first book, it certainly didn't change the way I write, the story, or the overall structure of the characters as far as personality. However, as Michael noted, we are always learning to develop the craft of writing, which is a lifelong process. Our styles improve, our editing skills naturally improve, our use of grammar improves, etc, and, ultimately, our stories improve as we experience life and things around us. Those things can't be turned off, so don't let someone get in your way. Agents and publishing houses may be able to dictate if you get published or not, but the fans, readers, and other writers will dictate whether or not you can write or not. Listen to yourself, and to your readers.

- B.T. Robertson

[twyrch]

Firstly, to B.T. Robertson, Jewelspell and J.D. Edwards, my thanks for your very kind words.

Another note to add to the beginning of this thread on publishing.

Publishing is a wonderful thing that should be celebrated. It is difficult in a world full of people, many of them submitting writing to only a handful of publishing outlets, to receive the benefit of a publishing credit. It is amazing to manage to get a magazine to publish a short story or a poem, and even more so for those like BT who have gotten a novel into circulation.

Publishing however is not all about talent. As if probably represented if you have ever picked up a book or article and thrown it back down and went, "Oh my god, what crap!" Sometimes publishing is about mood, timing, the attitude or desires of the public or the market, how the editor was feeling that day, what their pet peeves or prejudices are and of course LUCK.

For these reasons and several more I would like to encourage you, once again, to write for yourself and free whatever is within your heart. Feel the exhilaration of seeing your story born from heart to paper.

If you are set upon being published, then steel yourself to run the marathon. Professional writing is a hard, grueling, humbling experience like few others. Rejection is the news of the day and perseverance its only nemesis. I have seen it stated here on this forum that the only reason to be published is for the money. Well, here's your wake up call...what money?

If you are dreaming of being the next Tolkien, J.K.Rowlings or Steven King on your first book I suggest you invest your time and money in lottery tickets, you probably have a better chance of making money there. Such successes as Ms Rowling has encountered are flukes of the market, similar to sudden rises in stock prices. Do not mishear me, I am not knocking her nor any other writer, as I know what the path feels like to tread. But this is not a get rich quick career. It is one of the myths that upsets me.

"Well, you are a published writer, so you must be wealthy."

Hogwash! Even with a good publishing house backing you 100% there are factors that no one tells you about until you are there. For example, BT Robertson will be appearing at the West Virginia Book Festival this October. His publisher is purchasing the exhibit booth, he is one writer in their stable. But who is paying for his meals since he is away from home? Travel? Lodging? Transportation? He is most likely. And there he will sit, in a booth, all day long hoping someone wants a book signed or to talk about his work. But he is still a first time published author...no one knows his name...well almost no one. For the next year after he gets his release, while he is working his day job and working his next writing project he will be doing appearance after appearance trying to get his name and his book out there. Most of these will be long grueling days at his expense for the simple hopes of sharing his work. Once he is better known he may get invites to conventions as a free guest, but if he wanted to go to say DragonCon this September he'd be paying for an exhibit booth ( a minimum of around $700 for a 5x5 space for the four days)...where did that money come from? Well it came from his pocket, collected from his day job. I wish BT, as I do all of you, the absolute best of fortunes. I'd love him to be that fluke and rise quickly like Ms. Rowling. But, if he is like most writers, he will work tirelessly for 2-4 books, and then, only then will he have a solid stable of devout readers and see enough money to take his two best girls out to dinner...and if you read the other authors forum, only if he doesn't screw up in one of his books and lose his reader base. This doesn't even take into consideration the horribly reduced income he sees from book sales at discount places like Amazon.

I for one, and most likely BT and many of you with me, would love to write full time. To have just enough writing income to allow me to spend my time with family, children and my writing without having to punch a clock. I have no illusions on this front. I may never write full time professionally...I will however always write because it is what gives me rest and joy.

Writing is wonderful, and being published all the more wonderful. But it is not a walk in Willy Wonka's paradise. It is hard to get published, and then harder still to do something with that publishing contract, to make a positive impact in the lives of others.

It is worth the work.

It is worth the headaches to have the chance to improve, if for but a short time, the lives of readers like you.

It is not however a path for the weak.

It is in fact the path less taken, far more difficult, but worth the journey.

So, man writers are long winded, if you choose this path, steel yourself for an epic adventure, as filled with hardships and trials as is perhaps the tale of the characters in your own work.

- Michael J. Allen