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Post by dinadan on Feb 15, 2005 17:07:29 GMT -5
I don't know that I agree with your pronouncement on HP, Daae. Keep in mind that what we get in HP is from the perspecitve of wizards-in-training; certainly, the problems they face can be overcome with a spell that they might not have known. It would be different if this series were caleld "Albus Dumbledore."
And as for Voldemort not being a good villain...I think that he's the best thing you can get without wearing a radiator-grill mask and having a raspy James Earl Jones voice. I mean, good lord, in the first two books he's a disembodied spirit (and in the first one, he's cohabitating in the back of someone's skull); then, in GoF, he's that strange child-thing which is creepy as the devil, and then by the end of GoF, where he is reborn, he's a tall, gaunt man with vertical snake eyes. Not only that, but until his rebirth, he was the perfect villain, unlike my Darth Vader example. He had no redeeming qualities. But now, with Harry's blood and the lingering love of Harry's mother that is now a part of Voldemort, he actually has feelings and sentiment--whereas Vader has had all along a protective feeling about his family.
Like some of the rest of you, I think that the books are getting better, in the sense that they are revealing more about the complexity of the world that the books take place in, as the series goes along. However, that doesn't mean that the first ones are bad--everything builds on everything else. That's the first rule of good buildungsroman literature. And HP pulls that off marvelously.
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Post by Daae on Feb 15, 2005 19:37:36 GMT -5
Admittedly, Vader isn't the best villain in the world. He was an interesting character, but Palpatine was a better villain. But back to Voldy-boy (yes, I'm going to keep calling him "Voldy-boy"). Again, this is just a personal opinion, but I never felt threaten by Voldemort when I was reading the books. Even in GoF I wasn't terribly impressed. I want to feel threatened by a villain, or maybe feel like shouting defiantly in his/her face. Not laughing at him. Examples of villains I like would be Renaud de Bracineaux from The Celtic Crusades, Erik (the Phantom) from The Phantom of the Opera, Heathcliff from Wuthering Heights, and Archen from The Chronicles of Prydain. But this is just my humble opinion.
And as for the rest of HP, it all just seems to convient. And I mean for the characters and for J.K. Rowling. All the spells and everything, it looks like cheating to me.
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Post by dinadan on Feb 15, 2005 19:54:17 GMT -5
I cannot believe that you think Palpatine to be a better villian than Vader; I mean, that first moment in A New Hope when Vader strolls on and says "If this is a counsellor ship, where is the ambassador [as Captain Antilles' neck goes crack)" I have the immediate reaction of "Oh no, you do NOT want to mess with him." Palpatine, if it weren't for the lightning bolts coming from his fingers, would just be a decrepit old man.
Now, the scene in OotP where Voldemort and Dubledore have their face-off...that was by far THE COOLEST thing we've seen in HP so far. And it showed both of those characters as incredible, one dark, one light. I loved every second of it.
As far as the other villians you named....HEATHCLIFF??? Oh my, really....he's not a villain--he doesn't even complete his revenge quest when he has the chance. I have no respect for Healthcliff--he should have spent some time with Captain Ahab, then he'd learn how to carry out some revenge. Or Steerpike from Gormenghast, for that matter.
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Post by Lady Bookwyrm on Feb 15, 2005 23:35:32 GMT -5
Villains? How about Iago from Shakespeare's Othello...THAT is one evil dude...lol
I actually liked the first HP book the best...including the writing style. I guess it's the magic I felt when I read it for the first time...I was completely absorbed when I read it...awesome stuff!
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amodman
Mabinog
[M:395]
The Nightcrawler
Posts: 226
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Post by amodman on Feb 16, 2005 2:16:39 GMT -5
I think the big V is kinds weak too...but it's the Death Eaters, I believe, that the 'bad' in bad guy. Some of them are about as dark as a human can get, and when you mix psychotic, racist behaviour with strong wizadry and a unifying force (Voldemort) - THAT makes for something to fear.
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Post by twyrch on Feb 16, 2005 8:52:13 GMT -5
I think the big V is kinds weak too...but it's the Death Eaters, I believe, that the 'bad' in bad guy. Some of them are about as dark as a human can get, and when you mix psychotic, racist behaviour with strong wizadry and a unifying force (Voldemort) - THAT makes for something to fear. The Death Eaters.... now THERES'S something I wouldn't want to face... in light or dark. It reminded me of the Feeders in Terry Brooks Word/Void Series, but more sinister. It's going to be interesting to see how things play out... Now the Voldemort is back in body, he can reclaim what was his and you'll probably see a more nasty side to him than you ever had. Can you imagine if Voldemort took control of Azkaban and started placing members of the OoTP in there to be tormented by the Death Eaters? Or sending them out into the world to suck the happiness and joy out of everyone? Oooooo! |
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Post by dinadan on Feb 16, 2005 9:30:54 GMT -5
I think it's going to be great now that everyone is operating in the open. I mean, let's face it, Dubledore just rocks socks--and Voldemort with his leigion of fanatic followers (ok, not all of them are fanatics, but they are branded by him--interesting parallels to the mark of the beast, I think) are going to be hunting down Harry now hardcore. AND, let's keep in mind that the prophecy says that one of them (Voldemort or Harry) has to kill the other. That's going to be interesting, seeing Harry overcoming the ethical dilemma of killing someone, even someone as horrible as Voldemort. Also of interest...what really happened to Sirius? And, of course, the question burning in everyone's mind, who is the half-blood prince? Any thoughts?
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Post by twyrch on Feb 16, 2005 10:28:10 GMT -5
I think it's going to be great now that everyone is operating in the open. I mean, let's face it, Dubledore just rocks socks--and Voldemort with his leigion of fanatic followers (ok, not all of them are fanatics, but they are branded by him--interesting parallels to the mark of the beast, I think) are going to be hunting down Harry now hardcore. AND, let's keep in mind that the prophecy says that one of them (Voldemort or Harry) has to kill the other. That's going to be interesting, seeing Harry overcoming the ethical dilemma of killing someone, even someone as horrible as Voldemort. Also of interest...what really happened to Sirius? And, of course, the question burning in everyone's mind, who is the half-blood prince? Any thoughts? So you don't think Sirius is dead either, eh? Neither do I. That was the Dept of Mysteries.... Who knows the "real" effect of that curtain... I really hope she has something up her sleeve when it comes to that piece. Oh yeah, and Lucious Malfoy is "out of the closet" so to speak, when it comes to his support for Voldemort. The Dept of Magic should raid his home and see what all they can find.... |
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Post by dinadan on Feb 16, 2005 10:42:09 GMT -5
Oh, he very well may be dead...but dead under such strange circumstances that I think will eventually lead to some other plot point.
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Post by twyrch on Feb 16, 2005 11:52:21 GMT -5
Oh, he very well may be dead...but dead under such strange circumstances that I think will eventually lead to some other plot point. Supposedly, she's going to kill another main character this time around too.... I wonder if it will be Dumbledoor.... Someone taking Death in Harry's place.... |
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Post by Shazammm on Feb 16, 2005 13:53:28 GMT -5
i just wish Rowling would put the last couple out ASAP.....like, in the next century:P
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Post by twyrch on Feb 16, 2005 14:01:58 GMT -5
i just wish Rowling would put the last couple out ASAP.....like, in the next century:P At least she gets stuff published faster than George Martin... Now there's a loyal fan base.  She's got HBP coming on July 16th... I plan on buying it at Walmart at midnight when it is brought off the pallet. ;D |
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Post by Shazammm on Feb 16, 2005 14:35:12 GMT -5
i just want the series to be over and to be over quickly....before i lose interest.
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Post by twyrch on Feb 16, 2005 15:09:41 GMT -5
i just want the series to be over and to be over quickly....before i lose interest. I'm sure after the 6th book, you'll be on the edge of your seat waiting for the final one and will hardly lose interest. |
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Post by dinadan on Feb 16, 2005 16:13:14 GMT -5
Right on about her being faster than Martin. Of course, good lord, HP5 came out not too long ago--the time between HP5 and HP6 has been about half of what it was between HP4 and HP5. I don't think she's too slow at all.
Martin, on the other hand, has had 5 years to give me another book to read--I'm beginning to get bitter.
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Twyrch /|\
