Da Vinci Hoax

[slamdring]

I can't believe that they're putting this trash on the big screen!!! I mean it makes me mad that he his history wrong, but if your going to attack Christianity you could at least quote the Bible once, I mean the man doesn't quote the Bible once, in spite of the fact that that's what he is trying to disprove. Now if it were an attack on Jews or Moslems it wouldn't be tolerated for a minute, then why is it okay to attack Christians!!!

So if Dan Brown Makes you mad too here is a solution. I recently heard this on a Christian Radio show. Don't go to his movie, even out of curiousity, if your going to see it, wait until its on TV then you can watch it for free. Instead hit em where it hurts, THE BOX OFFICE!! Go to another movie when it comes out to downsize the Da Vinci Hoax. After all how much of a deal will they make if there's a movie thats more popular??!?! what do you think?? We don't need to tolerate this, but what will violence solve? Whose with me?!?! It is in this grave hour that we must rally together.

[Gwalchmai]

I'm sorry but I havn't read the Da Vinci Code at all but I didn't realize it was attacking Christianity? Please forgive my ignorance but what was wrong?

And to be honest I was surprised the made a movie of it... I didn't think it had the storyline for a movie... at least from my understandings.

[slamdring]

The gist of it is Leonardo Da Vinci belonged to a secret society which HE says was established in 1095 but really was established in 1950! Anyway there are all these secrets that he makes up about Da Vinci's works, for example, Christ was just a man no more, He was married to Mary Magdalen, and that Christians have been persecuting their descendants, and the list of Lies goes on and on and on and on!!!!! Makes me wanna be violent, but that never solved anything

[dinadan]

I am open the possibility that Christ and Mary were married. I am open to the possibility that, despite the seeming biblical evidence, the 'beloved disciple' is Mary and not John. I am also open the possibilities of a massively orchestrated global conspiracy.

However, where The DaVinci Code fails for me is that (1) there are a plethora of other (better?) authors who have been putting forward this same theory (or variations on it) for at least the last 30 years--Henry Lincoln (Holy Blood, Holy Grail) and Sir Laurence Gardner (Bloodline of the Holy Grail) spring to mind. That being said, very little of their cases can be proven except with circumstantial evidence. Most of this "theory" is an anachronistic projection of a lot of revamped, old (long disproven) heresies, fueled by a lot of anti-Catholic sentiment that exists in the world. (2) The DaVinci Code, as well as the other books/authors who are proponents of this idea of descendants of Jesus, point their finger at the Church for covering this knowledge up, editing the scriptures, etc. What they fail to take into account is that, between the persecution of the Jews and the Romans in the first years of the Chruch, and the lack of a formal power structure (they tend to assume that the Pope was head of the Church as soon as Jesus died, and that there was a network of cardinals already in place) there is really just no way that a "secret" like this could've been supressed. Digging a little deeper, they also don't mention that the Roman Catholic Church did not come into formal existence itself until 1054--when it made a break with the rest of the Church over disputes with the Ecuemenical Patriarch of Constantinople and the Emperor. Neither do they mention the fact that the College of Cardinals itself was not created until after the break with the East (in 1059).

To get into the actual "supposed" beliefs of the Desposyni (the Greek term used for Jesus' blood relatives)--that they were connected to a cult that is, from the descriptions in The DaVinci Code, an apparent hodge-podge of primitve goddess worship mystery cult (worship of Sophia/Wisdom as the Shekinah glory of God), Mithraism (worship of the God in a cave, as well as the sexual rites), Gnosticism (the transmition of secret divine knowledge to a select few), and yet remains profoundly Arian (denial of the divinity/dual nature of Christ)--is really absurd. I mean, what Dan Brown has done, is combine elements of both ancient Christian heresies and other ancient mystery cults, dressed them up within a page-turning thriller, and made it seem like this could all be real. As we're all no doubt aware, the best lies have the most elements of truth in them; The DaVinci Code is no different.

To be sure there are those--Sir Laurence Gardner among them--who claim to have documentary evidence that has been in the keeping of some of the noble families of Europe (those who are members of a secret organization, membership in which is reserved for those descendend from the Desposyni) that prove this story. However, these documents have not been made available for public scrutiny, and the only witnesses to their existence comes from both Gardner himself and Prince Michael of Albany (a pretender to the Thone of Great Britain, who claims descent from Bonnie Prince Charlie--a claim that is filled with illegalities, holes, and is considered by all authorities on hereditary offices a hoax). So, if these people really are Jesus' descendants, and they have proof, and they want people to know about it--surely they realize that the divisions that exist in Christendom would prevent them from coming to any harm if they brought this to light--then I don't see why they don't just disclose their evidence to the public, let it be verified, and then they can have the satisfaction of watching the institution that has supposedly been persecuting them from the last 2000 years crumble and wither away. Since this has not happened, and the only people preaching this story are a Royal pretender, a dubious scholar of heredity, some researches who have nothing more than circumstantial evidence and a theory that fits it all together, and a commercial novelist--I think it's safe to conclude that this is all, to employ a colloquialism, just a bunch of hooey.

That being said, I can only imagne that the anti-Christian sentiments in the world, along with a few other trends, are fueling this. It's a well known fact that when the populous of an empire begins to feel powerless, that's when you'll see belief in magick, superstition, and conspiracies enter mainstream thought. I look around at the last 30-40 years, and that's what I see happening, particularly in the U.S. The disaffection with Christianity, the powerlessness it has procured for itself, the rise in beliefs in magick and the supernatural divorced from Christian thought, and now a theory that says the Church is, in fact, a devious organization set up to supress the truth about Jesus...seems like a winning combination for the world we live in. I can only imagine that this dangerous pile of hooey is being perpetuated by this series of circumstances.

[slamdring]

All Historical, art experts, etc. says otherwise. I would encourage anyone to read:
Decoding Da Vinci
The Da Vinci Hoax
For the truth.

[dinadan]

slamdring said:

All Historical, art experts, etc. says otherwise. I would encourage anyone to read:
Decoding Da Vinci
The Da Vinci Hoax
For the truth.

Forgive me, but I think you missed my point. I'm saying while I remain open to the possibilty, the facts seem to suggest that Dan Brown (and the others I mentioned) are either in error or are not producing credible evidence of their claims. In other words, I agree with you that it is probably a hoax.

[Gwalchmai]

Why does it matter?

Do we need the truth of all things; or the truths to the things that matter?

And in my opinion, if people are losing their belief because of a popular book marketed along-side Harry Potter, then they really didn't have any faith to begin with.

[dgan]

1) Da Vince Code is not just inaccurate to me, but over-hyped and actually not very entertaining.

2) That said, as an American and a Christian, although I will argue with anyone to understand it is a fiction work (by Dan Brown's 'legal' statement, although he doesn't ever repeat that when speaking) I must also protect the right of these Americans to publish fiction books and movies. The problem is that they write fiction, call it fiction, yet many people WANT to believe it is true.

3) While I defend their rights as Americans to produce this crap, I also defend your right to boycott it. More power to ya. The only problem I see with your vehemence is, although it may inspire some, it will make those who are choosing to believe a lie even more hard-hearted toward the truth. I would rather use the movie and the book as an opportunity for discussion.

4) I have recently been studying the finer points of Scientology, simply because I am curious what makes people believe this stuff. It has reaffirmed that if someone wants to believe something is true, they will go to great lengths to ignore any facts or truths that disagree with them. It is sad. I feel bad for people who WANT to believe that Christianity is a secretive, scheming, lying cult. They simply don't think logically and there is little you can do to make them understand. All you can do is try to change their desire to be mislead, which is all but impossible. The Holy Spirit must work a miracle in that regard.

5) I will not see the movie, at least for a while - I haven't seen any Harry Potter movies and it took me 4 years before I watched Lord of the Rings. I don't watch anything just because it is the talk of the town. I can't imagine Da Vinci Code will be any more entertaining or any better theatrically than National Treasure, which was OK at best.

[dinadan]

gwalchmai said:

Why does it matter?

Do we need the truth of all things; or the truths to the things that matter?

And in my opinion, if people are losing their belief because of a popular book marketed along-side Harry Potter, then they really didn't have any faith to begin with.

I agree 100% that people who lose their faith over a novel didn't really have faith to begin with. More or less what concerns me is the mindset that allows someone to accept an argument so full of logical holes just because they want something "new"; it's this obsession with novelty in modern society that bothers me--not your individual faith (or lack thereof).

[dreamer]

Have you actually looked at this book? Have you seen that it is a FICTION!!! book? Sure, there may be misguided individuals that read this book and say 'it must be true, I read it in a book', but they are probably the people who read the "magazines" at the grocery store about aliens in someone's bathroom and believe them too.

I, for one, have read "The Davinci Code" (got it from the library, just to see what it was about). As a fiction book, it was great. There was one scene I didn't like at all, with sexual references, so I probably won't read it again, but that aside, it was a great read. It was intelligent, fast-paced, action-filled book that was extremely well-written. The author took a theory bouncing around in the world and wrote an interesting book out of it.

Do I agree with its premise? No. Am I going to waver in my faith because of it? No. Do I doubt the divinity of Jesus Christ? No. But I can also see why the movie would be interesting also. Because it's PG-13, I won't watch it, but again, as a work of FICTION, it is interesting.

For clarification, this book does not say that Christians as a whole have sought to "surpress" this idea, in the book it is one sect of the Catholic Church which is being manipulated by someone who wants to make a lot of $$ that is the "villain".

Personally, I think that this book or movie is SO overrated in regards to its impact on the church as a whole. I agree with Gwalchmai, if this book or movie makes people lose their faith, they didn't have any to begin with. And, further, if you want to complain about something, make sure you really know what it's about and read the book, keeping in mind that it's fiction. Most libraries have a copy.

[twyrch]

gwalchmai said:

Why does it matter?

Do we need the truth of all things; or the truths to the things that matter?

And in my opinion, if people are losing their belief because of a popular book marketed along-side Harry Potter, then they really didn't have any faith to begin with.

I agree... Christians these days get so worked up about stupid stuff like this. It's a book, for crying out loud. According to Dan Brown's Website, he doesn't make any claims for it being anti-christian or for it being factual.

www.danbrown.com/novels/davinci_code/faqs.html

HOW MUCH OF THIS NOVEL IS TRUE?
The Da Vinci Code is a novel and therefore a work of fiction. While the book's characters and their actions are obviously not real, the artwork, architecture, documents, and secret rituals depicted in this novel all exist (for example, Leonardo Da Vinci's paintings, the Gnostic Gospels, Hieros Gamos, etc.). These real elements are interpreted and debated by fictional characters. While it is my belief that some of the theories discussed by these characters may have merit, each individual reader must explore these characters' viewpoints and come to his or her own interpretations. My hope in writing this novel was that the story would serve as a catalyst and a springboard for people to discuss the important topics of faith, religion, and history.

BUT DOESN'T THE NOVEL'S "FACT" PAGE CLAIM THAT EVERY SINGLE WORD IN THIS NOVEL IS HISTORICAL FACT?
If you read the "FACT" page, you will see it clearly states that the documents, rituals, organization, artwork, and architecture in the novel all exist. The "FACT" page makes no statement whatsoever about any of the ancient theories discussed by fictional characters. Interpreting those ideas is left to the reader.

IS THIS BOOK ANTI-CHRISTIAN?
No. This book is not anti-anything. It's a novel. I wrote this story in an effort to explore certain aspects of Christian history that interest me. The vast majority of devout Christians understand this fact and consider The Da Vinci Code an entertaining story that promotes spiritual discussion and debate. Even so, a small but vocal group of individuals has proclaimed the story dangerous, heretical, and anti-Christian. While I regret having offended those individuals, I should mention that priests, nuns, and clergy contact me all the time to thank me for writing the novel. Many church officials are celebrating The Da Vinci Code because it has sparked renewed interest in important topics of faith and Christian history. It is important to remember that a reader does not have to agree with every word in the novel to use the book as a positive catalyst for introspection and exploration of our faith. "


Here's my "take" on it... People like Chuck Colson, Pat Robertson and James Dobson get Christians all worked up into a froth over this stuff and it only make the rest of us look intolerant.

It's a work of fiction... just like Harry Potter. Having boycotts, book burnings and mass hysteria isn't going to make this go away... it's going to boost sales to make people see what all the hype is about. I think I'll go buy it sometime just to check it out. I've always loved a good murder mystery.

[dinadan]

Three things get me, though, in his first response:

"HOW MUCH OF THIS NOVEL IS TRUE?
The Da Vinci Code is a novel and therefore a work of fiction. While the book's characters and their actions are obviously not real, the artwork, architecture, documents, and secret rituals depicted in this novel all exist (for example, Leonardo Da Vinci's paintings, the Gnostic Gospels, Hieros Gamos, etc.). These real elements are interpreted and debated by fictional characters. While it is my belief that some of the theories discussed by these characters may have merit, each individual reader must explore these characters' viewpoints and come to his or her own interpretations. My hope in writing this novel was that the story would serve as a catalyst and a springboard for people to discuss the important topics of faith, religion, and history."

Yes, all the things he talks about do exist. And, while I will be the first one to cheer for people to start thinking about and discussing fath, religion, and history, I would prefer people to look at the REAL thing, not fabrications. Of course, the first two (faith and religion) are pretty subjective, and I don't want to force my own ideology on anyone, so I'll let those go. But history is somewhat more objective--and it is there that Dan Brown is (whether intentionally or not) disingenuous. It's one thing to take liberties with the facts as a writer of historical fiction--it's quite another to do so, and then to claim "no, this background info here all really happened, my story just does something with that information"--which is exactly what Brown (sneakily) claims when he says "it is my belief that some of the theories discussed by these characters may have merit". I've done a bit of PR and spinning, and I'm pretty good at spotting the rhetoric of spin. Dan Brown reeks of it.

[kg00ds]

Bravo, Bravo I couldn't have said it better myself. Personally, I understand both sides and have decided that it is fiction and so I plan to see the movie. However, I do not think that our friend who started this thread is out of line.

[CynanMachae]

dinadan said:

I am open the possibility that Christ and Mary were married. I am open to the possibility that, despite the seeming biblical evidence, the 'beloved disciple' is Mary and not John. I am also open the possibilities of a massively orchestrated global conspiracy.

Dinadan, may I just interject here and say something? As lovingly as possible, I must tell you that we should be very careful with what "possibilities" we're open to. As Christians, everything we believe should be rooted 100% in the Truth of God's Word, His Bible. The Bible isn't about possibilites. Christianity isn't about possibilites. The Bible doesn't bs around on important issues, nor does it ask open-ended questions. It's Gods Holy Word, and should be valued over ANY man's opinion. Please make sure, as a Christian, that all the possibilites you believe to be true are firmly, AND CLEARLY, rooted in the Bible; no other place above it.


As far as the book/movie of the DiVinci Code goes...

The quality of the movie, strictly according to filmmaking standards, is gonna be really good. Ron Howards as director, everything he touches turns to gold. Tom Hanks, Ian McKellen, a great cast. After watching the previews, it looks like this movie could be something really good.

I also agree that this book is nothing for Christians to get worked up over. We should be concerned that unbelievers are reading this and believing it, but we can just as easily use this book as a witnessing tool, a way to show others the "fiction" in the book. Though I don't know enough about the message to actually debate someone about it. Maybe I'll know more if I watch the movie.

[Gwalchmai]

kg00ds said:

However, I do not think that our friend who started this thread is out of line.

Maybe his intetions but it came out a bit harsh for me to want to believe his meassage.