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Tolkien
Feb 18, 2005 13:16:23 GMT -5
Post by twyrch on Feb 18, 2005 13:16:23 GMT -5
Well, he offers that as a possibility...but makes it pretty clear that all explanations for Bombadil are after the fact. Tom Bombadil was a doll one of his son's played with (Michael, I think)...and Tolkien used to make up stories about him to tell the kids...then he just sort of slipped into LotR--mostly because, like Beorn (who also is hard to explain in terms of Tolkien cosmology) in The Hobbit, he wasn't expecting to create a comprehensive world out of his Hobbit sequel that tied into his England-mythology at first. But, once he did tie it together (with a little judicious rewriting of the Riddle Game chapter of the Hobbit), he made it work--sort of. Bombadil and Beorn are leftovers, of a sort. But it's fun to try to see where they fit. In the Tolkien Miscellany... there's a short story called Bombadil. I haven't read through it entirely, but it seems to a be a story of Tom.
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Tolkien
Feb 18, 2005 16:04:17 GMT -5
Post by dinadan on Feb 18, 2005 16:04:17 GMT -5
I've got a copy of "Tales from the Perilous Realm" which is a Tolkien anthology of sorts that got published in Britain--I picked it up while I was in Ireland last year. It reprints all of "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil" "Leaf By Niggle" "The Smith of Wooton Major" and "Famer Giles of Ham." It's a great little book.
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Tolkien
Feb 18, 2005 16:56:24 GMT -5
Post by twyrch on Feb 18, 2005 16:56:24 GMT -5
I've got a copy of "Tales from the Perilous Realm" which is a Tolkien anthology of sorts that got published in Britain--I picked it up while I was in Ireland last year. It reprints all of "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil" "Leaf By Niggle" "The Smith of Wooton Major" and "Famer Giles of Ham." It's a great little book. Yep! Here in America it's called A Tolkien Miscellany.
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Tolkien
Feb 18, 2005 16:57:53 GMT -5
Post by Child of Immanuel on Feb 18, 2005 16:57:53 GMT -5
Not in my mind... What I find humorous is that Aragorn is of the linage of the Numenoreons... who decended from Elros, Elrond's brother. When Aragorn married Eowyn, he was marrying his cousin (albiet distant). Aragorn married Arwen.
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Tolkien
Feb 18, 2005 17:00:00 GMT -5
Post by twyrch on Feb 18, 2005 17:00:00 GMT -5
Aragorn married Arwen. yeah... that's what I meant.... *embarrassed* I think I need to slow down and think before I post... My fingers are typing faster than my mind can react...
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Tolkien
Feb 18, 2005 18:27:48 GMT -5
Post by CynanMachae on Feb 18, 2005 18:27:48 GMT -5
yeah, and if my figures are correct, Arwen is more than 2,000 years older than Aragorn.
lookin' good! lol ;D
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Tolkien
Feb 18, 2005 18:54:19 GMT -5
Post by Lady Bookwyrm on Feb 18, 2005 18:54:19 GMT -5
lol...I totally missed the whole allusions Tolkien slipped in there...I've only read the story for face value...which means I should probably go back and re-read it, lol
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Tolkien
Feb 18, 2005 20:30:20 GMT -5
Post by calixar on Feb 18, 2005 20:30:20 GMT -5
There are actually some interesting hints dropped about the identity of Tom Bombadil... that when followed to conclusion create a fantasically intricate piece of a very comprehensive world. www.cas.unt.edu/~hargrove/bombadil.html
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Tolkien
Feb 19, 2005 10:14:26 GMT -5
Post by Riothamus on Feb 19, 2005 10:14:26 GMT -5
That's a very interesting idea....
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Tolkien
Feb 19, 2005 11:24:26 GMT -5
Post by dinadan on Feb 19, 2005 11:24:26 GMT -5
So, Tom and Goldberry as Aulë and Yvanna....I don't know that I buy it, mostly because (as previously stated) the Valar never took on flesh as the Istari did--or else why bother sending weaker spirits into Middle Earth to work against Sauron when they could simply incarnate themselves and come? Moreover, this passage in the Council of Elrond"
"And they who dwell beyond the Sea would not receive it [the Ring]"
which I interpret to mean that when Sauron poured his much of his power and his will into the Ring at its creation, it became a thing outside of him, and larger than him (what would be the purpose of creating it if he only stayed at the same level of power?)--without it, he was weaker than he was before it, but with it he is stronger. With it, he begins to rival the sature of Morgoth himself. Remember too that the Ring confers power based on the inherent power of the wielder; I maintain that only Illuvatar was so completely outside of his creation that the Ring would have no effect on him.
Also, there is the fact of Tom's name among the Elves "Iarwain Ben-adar" "oldest and fatherless." Aulë was the offspring of Illuvatars thought...offspring being the key word. Also, Aulë was not even the oldest of the Valar--that was Melkor quickly followed by Manwë.
I am not saying that Tom is Illuvatar--that would be going too far for me. However, as Tolkien said, he is an enigma--and it's ok to leave some things as mysteries.
Otherwise, I really enjoyed that essay Calixar; it's fun to think about these things.
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Tolkien
Feb 20, 2005 12:12:35 GMT -5
Post by twyrch on Feb 20, 2005 12:12:35 GMT -5
Here's something I found interesting.... It's almost Heresy to think about, but there are many similarities between Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings. Linky
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Tolkien
Feb 20, 2005 16:11:19 GMT -5
Post by Child of Immanuel on Feb 20, 2005 16:11:19 GMT -5
...without it, he was weaker than he was before it... I think I recall reading somewhere (perhaps in the Letters?) that without the Ring Sauron's power was not diminished, but with it his power was increased.
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Tolkien
Feb 20, 2005 17:15:26 GMT -5
Post by dinadan on Feb 20, 2005 17:15:26 GMT -5
I think I recall reading somewhere (perhaps in the Letters?) that without the Ring Sauron's power was not diminished, but with it his power was increased. I don't remember that in any of the Letters--but logically thinking, how could that be the case? If he was as powerful without it as he was before it, then how were the White Council able to drive him out of Dol Guldur (when, pre-ring, he stood toe-to-toe with Felegund who was a powerful Elf)? If he was as powerful without it as before it, why was he reduced forever to impotence when it was destroyed? No, too much of his power was bound up with the Ring--that's the only way it works.
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Tolkien
Feb 20, 2005 17:23:08 GMT -5
Post by twyrch on Feb 20, 2005 17:23:08 GMT -5
I don't remember that in any of the Letters--but logically thinking, how could that be the case? If he was as powerful without it as he was before it, then how were the White Council able to drive him out of Dol Guldur (when, pre-ring, he stood toe-to-toe with Felegund who was a powerful Elf)? If he was as powerful without it as before it, why was he reduced forever to impotence when it was destroyed? No, too much of his power was bound up with the Ring--that's the only way it works. I can't remember the exact quote, but I think Gandalf told Frodo that sauron poured all of his hatred, power and will to dominate into the ring and that his life was now bound to the ring.
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amodman
Mabinog
[M:395]
The Nightcrawler
Posts: 226
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Tolkien
Feb 20, 2005 21:07:15 GMT -5
Post by amodman on Feb 20, 2005 21:07:15 GMT -5
I can't remember the exact quote, but I think Gandalf told Frodo that sauron poured all of his hatred, power and will to dominate into the ring and that his life was now bound to the ring. Ya, that's in the LOTR trilogy.
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